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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to know what most people think about of the ongoing view that Diesel is more polluting that petrol and whether in the next few years time' we'll be (as consumers) be pushed back to Petrol engines (as we've been historically pushed to diesels) and whether because of this, the value of diesel cars will drop off?

As a background I've had a diesel Kuga for ~ 8 years (and I have to say its a bit crap for short journeys as we've had a couple of issues with the DPF (but other than that the Kuga as been rock solid)) and in light of the recent turnaround on the view on diesel cars is that they're a lot worse (if better at C2O emissions) on pollution is makes sense to jump back to petrol now (even its is going to be more expensive to run as the economy isn't as good).

Its a shame that the VW don't offer the 1.4 150 TSI with DSG as Seat do with the Ateca, as although perhaps slightly underpowered (for a petrol) it would give the 150 TDI a run for it money overall.

So what do people think? Am I over worrying about this and what will be, will be? Or because there is are simply too many diesel cars our there, its going to take longer that say, 5-10 years to change people behaviours into reverting back to petrols?

Thanks again
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Oh and on the notion of Diesel Particulate Filers (DPF) - does anyone have experience with current and previous Tiguans as to whether this was a problem or not? Thanks
 

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The problem with Diesels isn't CO2 - it's everything else they put out like NOx. I think AdBlue can only go so far. Given some recent news (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/tax-insurance-and-warranties/2017-03/future-of-diesel-looks-bleak-as-government-considers-new-tax-treatment/), I would say it's likely that a new tax will be introduced for diesel at the pumps which will in turn slow demand, lower new and second hand prices then drive people over to petrol. I think this is inevitable really - the situation reminds me a little of the increasing tax put on cigarettes - but it may take a few years to implement.

All of my cars have been petrol including the Range Rover which was replaced by my Tiguan R-Line. On a personal level, I can't justify having a diesel - I tend to do more short journeys and I didn't want to have to worry about the DPF . The only benefit of having a diesel for me would be MPG, but I got 38 MPG out of my Tiguan R-Line at the weekend which is almost double what my Range Rover had :lol:
 

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I had two diesel cars previously and the short journey I was doing hit fuel consumption hard and gave me EGR valve issues on both. I bought diesel as I liked the oomph in the narrow rev range. From 2010 I went back petrol for the reason that I dont do the miles to justify a diesel. I think it's inevitable that it will swing back to petrol or petrol/hybrid as a result of the perceived diesel issues and that the government will no doubt tax diesels higher in coming years as Lordjik points out
 

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VW offer the 1.4 150 TSI DSG here in South Africa so maybe it was a VW UK call to not offer it there?
 

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Its unfortunate that diesel is now the kicking boy when it was petrol a year or two ago. Most of the problems are with older cars and OK VW did shoot themselves in the foot. The problem at the moment is that in terms of economy there is no comparison for those who do a highish mileage say over 12,000 and certainly over 15,000. This plus the better torque and response especially with DSG swung me to a diesel SEL TDI 190 but I would have been happy with the SEL 180 TSI manual had it been available and had mpg been better. So far as DPF is concerned forget about it I have had 4 VW/Audis with DPF - loads of problems with the first some 8 years ago but not a sniff of a problem since. I do a high mileage between July and November and just a few local miles a day the rest of the year and never had the slightest problem with DPF since that first car.
Your point about residual value is valid if the papers keep up their current diesel hysteria it may affect resale value which would be a shame.
 

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Hartside said:
I had two diesel cars previously and the short journey I was doing hit fuel consumption hard and gave me EGR valve issues on both. I bought diesel as I liked the oomph in the narrow rev range. From 2010 I went back petrol for the reason that I dont do the miles to justify a diesel. I think it's inevitable that it will swing back to petrol or petrol/hybrid as a result of the perceived diesel issues and that the government will no doubt tax diesels higher in coming years as Lordjik points out
I had a MK1 Tiguan 2.0 (4motion) TDi, I also didn't do the miles to justify it so MPG was poor and caused EGR valve issues. Hence the reason for the purchase of the 1.4 TSi SE Nav MKII.

Our next vehicle in about three years I think will be the Touareg Petrol Hybrid as they get released in 18 months
 

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The other bonus for petrol is the great increase in refinement, since the VAG diesel is still someway behind other marques (it's as if they have stopped bothering trying to increase NVH from them since 2008 when the CR diesel engine was introduced over the old PD engine). I don't think it has much to do with the actual quietness of the engine, since the BMW X1 is quieter/smoother inside the car but I wouldn't say it's necessarily quieter outside the car.

That said, it varies depending on which car it is in, but the Tiguan still suffers from that "GGGRRRR" noise on take off that plagues the old 8P A3 I have. That said, in an A6, the 190 Ultra engine is nice and quiet (unsure if it's the same engine in the Tiguan 190 TDI as I know VAG have different engines with same power outputs in different platforms).
 

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I do very small mileage mainly town driving. My last car was petrol and the fuel consumption was terrible for a mordern car. I now have a diesel and while the fuel consumption is still poor I'm getting 10mpg more than my last car for town driving. Hopefully that figure will get better as the engine is run in. This is my second VW diesel and I've had no problems with DPF.

With so many vehicles using diesel i think it will be around for a bit but diesel has its cards marked.

My local council is bringing in a Levy for Residents with diesel cars to reduce pollution. My neighbour has a 13 year old diesel car and mine is two months old but we will pay the same Levy. Crazy!
 

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My last 3 cars have been Diesels, 2 Golf GTD's and currently a Landrover Discovery Sport and I haven't had any issues with DPF's, the occasional warning message after a lot of short journeys but a quick run up the motorway soon sorts it out. Adblue for NOx reduction works well and is a simple solution involving no more effort than topping up screen wash.

This time however I have moved to Petrol mostly on economic grounds and partly because of all the hysteria which the government and local councils will use as an excuse to increase charges/taxes, we are already seeing the first signs of this and I'm sure there will be more.

Anyone doing less than about 12,000 miles per year (maybe even 15,000) and/or doing many short journeys and not needing the extra torque for towing shouldn't buy a Diesel on purely economic grounds, the higher purchase price and additional cost of Diesel fuel means the break even point, assuming sensible MPG, will likely be over 4 years. If taxes and other charges for Diesel increase this position will be even worse!

I don't think Diesel residuals will fall of a cliff, not for Euro 6 anyway, but older models may unless some sort of sensible scrapage scheme is introduced
 

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i do 8000 miles a year and would never consider anything but diesel in an SUV or any non performance car tbh. I just hate petrol engines revving away when a torquey effortless diesel fit these type of cars so much better. Then there's the improved residuals, improved mpg, cheaper insurance and the fact that when you sell it on, 9 out of 10 people will only consider diesel. Yes things are changing but diesel will still dominate until we move across to hybrid/ all electric vehicles over the next 10 years. Petrol cars work well in little city cars and performance cars but no one buys a a4/a6/q5/q7 or any BMW/Mercedes with a petrol engine.
 

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Imho......

That diesels are becoming increasingly demonised, and also that their drivers and /or owners should brace for a financial [email protected] is now beyond doubt.
That includes me, however I am not worried about what my leased diesel will be worth in 2 years time :lol:

However, if we all switched to EVs tomorrow would everything be ok? Both environmentally and financially?
Of course not- they'd still get their taxes somehow, and the country would be suffering regular brown outs...or worse!
 

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Winrya said:
i do 8000 miles a year and would never consider anything but diesel in an SUV or any non performance car tbh. I just hate petrol engines revving away when a torquey effortless diesel fit these type of cars so much better. Then there's the improved residuals, improved mpg, cheaper insurance and the fact that when you sell it on, 9 out of 10 people will only consider diesel. Yes things are changing but diesel will still dominate until we move across to hybrid/ all electric vehicles over the next 10 years. Petrol cars work well in little city cars and performance cars but no one buys a a4/a6/q5/q7 or any BMW/Mercedes with a petrol engine.
Having thoroughly tested the TDI 150 and the TSI 180, my Mum has an R-Line TDI 150, the petrol was the much smoother engine imo. Our Tig will do around 8000 miles per year, mainly the Mrs nipping shopping and driving about town doing whatever she does with our little one and the dog in the car. Taking this into account there would be no benefit to us buying diesel.

The cars you mention will rarely be a 4 pot diesel, most will be a 6 pot unless talking the lower end of the engine options - therefore I'm not really sure you can compare the engine options VW currently offer on the Tig. My 535d was an amazing diesel engine, effortless power but I can tell you in the refinement stakes the VW 4 pot lump is in no way comparable.

Ultimately it comes down to personal preference and how your car will be used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
as always thanks for everyone's input

The Tiguan will be my wife's car (as I have an Audi A4) but is 90% in town driving i.e. being taxi driver for our children, you know, school, swimming, dancing, gymnastics, football etc etc. and its not often we're on a fast A-road let alone a motorway. Also with the Kuga and I partially blame my wife for this, she's often in the wrong gear (often in a higher gear than necessary) hence my insistence with auto/dsg this time that coupled with the in-town driving my explain why we've had trouble with the DPF. It should be noted that when bought the (diesel) Kuga it was on the premise that we drive to France on holiday (which we did 4 times so having diesel made a lot of sense). So we've nearly had it 8 years and we're just past 50k (which 10%+ is the holiday alone) so you can see we do not door much milage)
Bearing this in mind and the recent demonisation of diesels and like the Kuga, we'd plan to keep the Tiguan for many years - so you can see for these reason I am erring towards Petrol. Having said that, I think it will be far more gradual for the populace to move to electric/hybrid/petrol alternatives and for diesels to be consider really bad - say 20 years from now, maybe more? - as there are simply far to many diesel engine cars out there + manufactures have invested so much into them. Therefore I am probably worrying over nothing.

that said, I don't suppose there's a huge running costs difference between a 150TDI vs 180TSI (also performance is better :) ) considering may need right? I would naturally appreciate TSI's driver view on running cost and MPG etc.

thanks again
 

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I used to own an Audi A5 2 litre turbo petrol... 44mpg combined on paper. The petrol 2 ltr Tiguan is 38mpg.

The A5 was awful on fuel, so I would't even consider the 2 litre petrol Tiguan. I used to do 260 miles before the petrol light would come on!!!

I do less than 10k a year. Now... with my new 2 litre diesel Tiguan I have just done 260 miles and there is almost half a tank still remaining!!!

For anyone to say shorter journeys do not benefit from diesel are bonkers. It makes a big difference.

I literally cannot believe how much better the consumption is on non-motorway driving.
 

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Also.. the a5 had a large petrol tank so I am comparing like for like. Obviously motorway driving mpg is out of this world compared to a petrol needless to say really.

I was getting average of 25mpg around town in the petrol. 38mpg now average driving how I want to drive.
 

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Winrya said:
i do 8000 miles a year and would never consider anything but diesel in an SUV or any non performance car tbh. I just hate petrol engines revving away when a torquey effortless diesel fit these type of cars so much better. Then there's the improved residuals, improved mpg, cheaper insurance and the fact that when you sell it on, 9 out of 10 people will only consider diesel. Yes things are changing but diesel will still dominate until we move across to hybrid/ all electric vehicles over the next 10 years. Petrol cars work well in little city cars and performance cars but no one buys a a4/a6/q5/q7 or any BMW/Mercedes with a petrol engine.
Im not convinced as the cost difference between petrol and diesel on 8,000 miles will be minimal and for me the smoother engine, quicker warm up time and wider rev range are all attractive features of a petrol engine. Sure, I like the torque but on anything other than an auto it can be tiring on the narrow rev range of a diesel. BMW have it nailed with their 6 cylinder diesel as have Range Rover with their diesel V6, but give them some gun and they are both heavy drinkers. I've been quite surprised at how many petrol owners/potential owners are on here as when I ordered I didn't think many TSI's would be around. A lot of car manufacturers only have their models in diesel, like BMW with their X3, or Seat only offering the Ateca 4x4 in diesel in the U.K. but that's bound to change soon. Public opinion is a funny thing and media rubbish will swing it toward petrol as fear and hysteria (exaggerates for effect lol) grips the general public

In terms of short journeys and diesel, my first diesel managed around 30mpg and my second 32mpg. Comparing that to my Golf GTI at 29mpg and lastly my 3 series 320i xdrive at 28mpg, over the 6000 miles per year and the cost difference was nowt, considering the price I paid for the cars in the first place. I really don't buy a car on the mileage I do to worry about fuel, more for me is the issues with EGR on the short journeys, which I had on both diesels

But each to their own, it wouldn't be any fun if we all thought the same :D
 

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PWVWT2017 said:
I used to own an Audi A5 2 litre turbo petrol... 44mpg combined on paper. The petrol 2 ltr Tiguan is 38mpg.

The A5 was awful on fuel, so I would't even consider the 2 litre petrol Tiguan. I used to do 260 miles before the petrol light would come on!!!

I do less than 10k a year. Now... with my new 2 litre diesel Tiguan I have just done 260 miles and there is almost half a tank still remaining!!!

For anyone to say shorter journeys do not benefit from diesel are bonkers. It makes a big difference.

I literally cannot believe how much better the consumption is on non-motorway driving.
Totally Agree. My last car was a petrol A5 and was terrible on petrol around town.
 

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PWVWT2017 said:
I used to own an Audi A5 2 litre turbo petrol... 44mpg combined on paper. The petrol 2 ltr Tiguan is 38mpg.

The A5 was awful on fuel, so I would't even consider the 2 litre petrol Tiguan. I used to do 260 miles before the petrol light would come on!!!

I do less than 10k a year. Now... with my new 2 litre diesel Tiguan I have just done 260 miles and there is almost half a tank still remaining!!!

For anyone to say shorter journeys do not benefit from diesel are bonkers. It makes a big difference.

I literally cannot believe how much better the consumption is on non-motorway driving.
My Mum lives in the same area and will do very similar type of driving / routes as to what ours is used for. I checked and she is currently averaging in her R-Line 150 TDI 7mpg more than we get from our R-Line 180 TSI. That is a price I happily pay for what I believe as a much smoother engine having driven them both. Obviously if the car was to be doing lots of long journeys I would think differently.
 

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The main reason I went for diesel was the torque for towing a large caravan. Previously I'd towed with a 2 litre petrol Rav4 and it was abominable on hills, frequently having to drop down to second. The tig just cruises up them and never needs to shift that low. OK the newer turbo petrols are impressive (love the misses polo 1.2 with turbo), but I'd have to be convinced before swapping the diesel for a petrol tug.
 
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